Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

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BobTank63
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Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

So one of the things I noticed in the new gameplay videos is the Marines aiming over their sights. I asked a friend who was in the Marines about it and he said that is how they were trained to shoot with M16’s in CQC, but at anything beyond close range it was very inaccurate. However, in the videos players are able to get accurate shots off with this aiming technique at longer ranges. I also saw several comments expressing the same view.

Could you reduce the accuracy of this aiming method at longer ranges?
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aggimajera
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

BobTank63 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:51 pm So one of the things I noticed in the new gameplay videos is the Marines aiming over their sights. I asked a friend who was in the Marines about it and he said that is how they were trained to shoot with M16’s in CQC, but at anything beyond close range it was very inaccurate. However, in the videos players are able to get accurate shots off with this aiming technique at longer ranges. I also saw several comments expressing the same view.

Could you reduce the accuracy of this aiming method at longer ranges?

100% agreed here. Aiming like that at anything beyond 15 meters would be just asking to miss. It’s in every gameplay video, and there should be some sort of drastic accuracy dip to prevent this.
absent
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

I think if you lined the top of an ACOG up with the front sight post you would be shooting pretty high. Like, I just grabbed my AR and even at 10 or 15 feet, if I'm aiming through my scope, then I raise my head and line the top of the scope up with the front, I'm aiming way high. At 10 or 15 feet, I'd still hit a man sized target, but yeah I'm guessing at 50+ or something you're overshooting most things. I don't have a front sight post on here though, so maybe the height of those sight posts helps reduce that to an extent, but they're not so high that it'll line up above an ACOG. I will test it on a friends rifle that has the sight post next time I'm over there.

Edit: Check this image out.

https://i.ibb.co/Xj3WXLx/testinggame.jpg

Here's what I mean. Lining the top of the scope up it looks like I'm going to hit pretty low on that blue fabric. When I check through the scope though it's actually going to hit pretty high, like half way up or more. That's like a foot or more of difference from where it looks like I'm aiming to where the actual round will land at a very close target. With a front sight post this would be a *little bit* less but you'd still be shooting pretty high. Obviously my scope isn't zeroed at 10 feet so you have to take that into account, but just physically you have to move the rifle up a lot to line the scope and the front sight up so you're gonna hit high.

I feel like you'd be better off ignoring the front sight post entirely and just aiming off of the top of the ACOG. Aiming off of my scope cap on top gets me pretty close to where the scope is actually aiming. I'll definitely test this out next time I go to the range, I wonder how far out I can hit aiming from the scope cap lol. I've never tried.
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aggimajera
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

Agreed with absent. Aiming like that with a front sight post will cause high impact any anything beyond close range. You’d need to aim very, very low to accurately impact like that outside of close quarters. In that case, rear sights.

This actually should be looked at immediately. Almost every gameplay video to this point has guys aiming in the front sight post fashion - they would have miss after miss at the distances they’re shooting at IRL.

I hope you guys look at this, Amper. The more I think about it the more it’s bugging me. How most of us have not noticed this to this point is beyond me.
absent
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

Just to confirm this for myself I remembered I had a 556 bore laser that I can chamber into my rifle. When aiming through the scope at the bottom of the fabric it's pretty much on with my scope crosshairs. (Very slightly off, but that's due to my scope being zeroed further out). When aiming straight across the top of the scope cap it's pretty close. Then, when attempting to align the scope cap with the front "sights" (it's actually my flashlight pressure pad mount, but as a stand-in for a front sight post it's fine) it's way above like this:

https://i.ibb.co/w0rnXzS/gametest2.jpg

I was thinking maybe on a rifle with a 20" barrel + the sight post height, it might not be as dramatic as my image because of my 16" barrel, but on the M16A4 model the gas block / sight post isn't at the end of the barrel anyway so it's a non factor. I think the height of the sight post might reduce that a bit but again, at range, that's not gonna be usable.
Brummbaer97
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

I'm not a gun expert at all but this seemed so off that it bothered me enough to take my emersion (to the point where i even registed here). I've a lot of coments on videos that were pointing this out as being very odd.

It might me somewhat usefull at very close range but as you can see in the video below, the flashlight which seems to be mounted parallel to the barell is pointing way highter at even 3-5 meters distance.


I also remembered Arma2 a "cqc-mode" for the m16 whith an acog but there your are aiming pretty much just with the top of the scope.
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

I certainly second this!

The accuracy from canted/CQB is far too accurate from the game play I’ve seen.

While I know the over the top view does look cosmetically appealing; I feel the FOV holds far to much zoom, and lack of Blur either on the iron sight or back drop is meh.

Below I have my biggest “takeaways” for both sight orientations along with a photo to reference.


Current View Take Aways:


- To Much Zoom
- accuracy at distances greater than 6-8 meters
- Cosmetically Appealing
- working fine as it is


Canted View Take Aways:


- larger FOV
- optic inclusion
- less “absolute” on the shots on target


Below, are two photos, the 1st showing the canted view. And the second with the “current view”

Canted view is how I primarily handled and currently hand my weapons in CQB environments.

I know we are getting close, but I’d LOVE to see at least an option to aim canted instead of over the top (just a preference)
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BobTank63
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

Just to be clear, I don’t think the over the sight method itself should be removed. AFAIK Marines were actually trained to aim like this for CQC. I just think the accuracy should be adjusted so when aiming at ranges the are more than a room’s length away, players have to actually use the sights.
Trood
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

I’d have to agree with the accuracy!

I too don’t want to see the over the top removed, that’s a bit rash.

Great observation and post by the way!
absent
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Re: Adjustments to “over the sight” shooting

Yeah, I don't think it should be removed either. I think 1.) accuracy should be reduced at range, and 2.) they should adjust the animation so the character isn't lining the top of the ACOG up with the front sight post.

The Arma video Brummbaer97 posted is a good example, I think.

I get that this is a big change and I wouldn't expect it to be made quickly, certainly not before the EA is released, but I hope the team will consider it.
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