Harming Civilian Consequences

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aggimajera
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Harming Civilian Consequences

I am aware of Six Days' current perception and understand why you are making civilian casualties a "Game Over". Because of the fact these are real stories being told of Operation: Phantom Fury, the deaths of civilians at the hands of these particular Marines is most likely based on whether it happened or not in real life. If Six Days is to keep true to the good conduct of the Marines in question, then absolutely gloss over what I am writing next.

Harming civilians is a war crime. Plain and simple. If you do it by accident it can ruin your life and will haunt you forever. And if you do it on purpose, you deserve to spend the rest of your life in Leavenworth or worse. I'd like to begin my thought with that preface. I, in no way, shape, or form condone the harming of non-combatants.

It is a given fact that the war in Iraq led to the loss of civilian life, as is the case in all war. And it is true that a few of those civilians accidentally met their end at the rifle-barrels of terrified US Servicemen. Without passing judgement, and even with a twinge of understanding, those things were at a severely high risk of occurring and were an unfortunate reality. The deaths of innocent people is one of the worst and most regrettable aspects of a war, and a prime example of why it must be avoided at all costs.

All of this serves in relation to the idea of a civilian casualty in Six Days resulting in an immediate game over.

My question is this: has any thought been given towards the portrayal of civilian casualties in this game? Have any ideas arisen or even been considered past the idea of a "Game Over" screen to portray this terrible, nonfictional occurrence.

Some ideas I have that I considered alternatives that punish the action but don't end the game immediately.

"The Game Over Screen":
A game over as the result of shooting a civilian isn't a simple screen. It is the image of your own fire-team taking control of your firearm and restraining you to prevent you from doing anything else.

If you shoot a civilian:
1.) The game gives you one chance to continue forward with the mission, but you as a player must continue with a difficulty spike. The enemy will become more aggressive in their tactics because you hurt an innocent, and your aim (or perhaps reload speed) is stunted because of your own feelings crippling you. If you do it again, you will be given the game over.
or
2.) The game keeps track of your mission progress point-by-point. If you harm a civilian, you lose your previous checkpoint in the event you die. If you kill another civilian, you are given the game over screen and sent back 2 checkpoints.

I reiterate, my tips are mere suggestions and are not meant in any way to condone shooting non-combatants. They serve to punish the act, but do not immediately mean the end of the game.

I say all this as a mere forum poster. I am not on the development team and as such am to be considered a mere keyboard warrior. My words are those of an onlooker, and I understand if my statement and input are disregarded since I do not bear the brunt of any negative attention you receive. My suggestions are merely there to integrate a feature of war every other war game in the genre will not touch.
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AmperCamper
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Re: Harming Civilian Consequences

Thank you for your very thoughtful and articulate suggestions. We really appreciate the time and thought that went into this. Please know that some members of our leadership team have already read your post today and others will read it in the coming days.

As you noted, this is a REALLY tough issue. Part of our thinking comes down to intent. On one hand, we want responsible players to feel the horror that comes from accidentally engaging a civilian. But, on the other hand, it’s hard to distinguish accidental from intentional in a videogame (or in real life, I’m sure).

The written ROE for 1 MarDiv was very clear that intentionally engaging civilians was a crime, and this is the foundation of how we’ve been planning to handle this. However, we’ve also heard stories of Marines who had to be removed from combat after they accidentally engaged a civilian because these Marines became combat ineffective after that. They simply couldn’t pull the trigger anymore, and there’s a reality in that, too.

So, especially considering the importance and difficulty of handling this appropriately, we want you to know that we appreciate the thoughts you’ve offered, and these will be reviewed by our leadership team.
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Stickfigure21
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Re: Harming Civilian Consequences

Maybe there should be a time frame where say after you breach a door and see a shape, if you shoot within the first second or two out of reflex, no penalty‘s are received other than “fuck I killed a civilian.” But then after the 2 seconds or so once it’s CLEAR it’s a civi, if you shoot, THEN you get hit with a “don’t shoot civis” screen.
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aggimajera
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Re: Harming Civilian Consequences

AmperCamper wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:42 pm Thank you for your very thoughtful and articulate suggestions. We really appreciate the time and thought that went into this. Please know that some members of our leadership team have already read your post today and others will read it in the coming days.

As you noted, this is a REALLY tough issue. Part of our thinking comes down to intent. On one hand, we want responsible players to feel the horror that comes from accidentally engaging a civilian. But, on the other hand, it’s hard to distinguish accidental from intentional in a videogame (or in real life, I’m sure).

The written ROE for 1 MarDiv was very clear that intentionally engaging civilians was a crime, and this is the foundation of how we’ve been planning to handle this. However, we’ve also heard stories of Marines who had to be removed from combat after they accidentally engaged a civilian because these Marines became combat ineffective after that. They simply couldn’t pull the trigger anymore, and there’s a reality in that, too.

So, especially considering the importance and difficulty of handling this appropriately, we want you to know that we appreciate the thoughts you’ve offered, and these will be reviewed by our leadership team.
Im appreciative you and others took the time to read, and hope it was of some value or help!
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aggimajera
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Re: Harming Civilian Consequences

Stickfigure21 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:16 pm Maybe there should be a time frame where say after you breach a door and see a shape, if you shoot within the first second or two out of reflex, no penalty‘s are received other than “fuck I killed a civilian.” But then after the 2 seconds or so once it’s CLEAR it’s a civi, if you shoot, THEN you get hit with a “don’t shoot civis” screen.
That makes sense to me. But on its own it is a little too lenient and removes a part of the fear of room clearing. Basically, penalties do not discriminate. In your mind you are prepared to engage targets but there is a little voice in the back of your head whispering a concern you might engage a non-target that you need to overcome or ignore to be effective. There isn't a grace period when making a decision like that, and implementing one overlooks a potentially fatal opportunity for hesitation real Soldiers and Marines faced.

However, I think that this idea would make sense to eliminate the prospect of intentional killing of civvies if you merged it with the ideas I presented. In fact, you made a brilliant suggestion.

Lets say this grace period is implemented. During this grace period the game punishes you for an accidental shooting of a civilian but gives you the chance to move on. But after that grace period expires, if you shoot a civvie its game over. And not only should it be game over, it should erase your progress for that mission and take you back to the main menu because there is a high probability you shot that civvie with intent.

I'd also suggest a small reprimanding message along the lines of "DO NOT ENGAGE CIVILIANS" and show the order for 1MarDiv to not intentionally engage unarmed combatants.
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