Suggestions and thoughts.

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gungamunga
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Suggestions and thoughts.

1. Close combat atmosphere
indoor gunfights are terrifying and deafening. Sound design needs to get on this as well as the visual effects team. Gunshots indoors kick up a tremendous amount of dust. Tracers lodge themselves into walls and continue to burn and hiss if they are not destroyed by the impact.

Here is an example of good indoor/outdoor sound design.



The sound mix should prioritize gunshots and explosions above everything else. You should have to play with subtitles it should be so overwhelming. This is hard to describe but the sound mix for indoor combat should really be deafening (not literally). Outside supersonic bullet cracks should scare the player into wanting to find cover instead of some UI screen blur or shake to warn them. This can all be done with sound design. it has to be LOUD and SCARY. After a firefight indoors the room should be covered with floating dust , and if you have a flashlight on that light should be lighting up a volumetric beam of said floating dust.

2. Limited arsenal
A soldier is trained to his weapon. Marines were issued full length m16/a2 and a4 rifles. In addition the only weapons you would see around you are M240 machine guns , and squad automatic weapons. Most marines did not have optics , however if they did they were either simple red dots or acog 4x scopes. They also had IR laser/illuminator units on their rifles too. Grenade launchers were also on rifles , however the game needs to make clear that in room distance combat the 40mm grenade has a safety fuse and shooting it under 40 meters results in no detonation.

3. drugs
The insurgents in fallujah were on amphetamines and crack. This created a situation where despite multiple hits and mortal injuries , the insurgents would continue to fight until their body stopped functioning. This resulted in suggestions of headshots from command. In fact investigations were done on the marines in fallujah because of all the headshots found on insurgents , because they assumed it was illegal executions taking place. However it was mainly new optics (acog) and shooting at targets of opportunity (heads peaking out behind cover)

4. night vision
Real night vision is not like video game night vision. The pvs 14 is a grainy , low contrast piece of gear. In a pitch black basement or room with no lights its completely useless since its a light amplification device. Here is an example of how it looks. Its not just a green filter over the screen like call of duty.



For obvious reason the IR illuminator/laser on rifles should also be functional

5. weapon handling
Close combat with a full length 20 inch barrel m16 is not fun. The game should simulate this by having it hard to maneuver , get caught up on stuff. Here is an example of how games deal with this.

.

It would also be interesting if the dev team dropped the "locked to the center of the screen" weapon handling and adopted the arma style deadzone aiming for a more personal weapon handling. Where you could be prone and aim your weapon without moving your game body.

6. gore
Lots of games get gore wrong. Either its a giant splash of blood or a small puff of dust. The reality is somewhere in between or not at all. When a bullet hits a person its usually an invisible event. The bullets main interaction is when energy is transferred to the clothes causing a "flap" to occur at high speed. There is usually no spray of blood or dust depending on the environment. When the person falls they start bleeding out however and there is alot of blood. However headshots are different. Depending on the caliber a high velocity 556 round out of a 20 inch barrel will remove a persons brain from their skull. It will be a puff of pink mist and usually the skull collapses letting the brain leak out onto the floor. Higher caliber weapons like 7.62 from machine guns transfer more energy so its more violent of a reaction. Devs should watch close combat footage from syria to get an idea of this stuff. After a firefight in this game there should be blood all over the floor and chunks of skull and brain all over the place. It should be gross

7. Hand to hand.
Fallujah was unique in that it was one of the first major urban close combat battles in recent military memory. Door to door house to house. Many instances of hand to hand combat took place despite newer more high capacity weapons. If you turn a corner and are met by an enemy and he grabs you , you likely cannot pull up your weapon and if your buddy is busy you are in a hand to hand fight. Bayonets were used in fallujah , and by used i mean deployed by marines (usually point men) However i have not heard any reports of said bayonets ever been used in combat to kill an enemy. However this could just be lost because that would be deeply personal. The devs should implement a system of hand to hand combat (which likely would have to be QTE based or something) and mountable bayonets since every marine is issued one.


8. Color
The trailer looked bad. Liked every other "middle east" video game. The colors are too vibrant and the air is too clear. These are very dusty areas. I suggest the devs look at alot of pictures to really nail down the colors of this area. Everything is made from flat earthen materials , and everything synthetic has been decimated by UV exposure. https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/al-f ... ostpopular
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jop
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Re: Suggestions and thoughts.

Close combat and close quarters action should be prominent in this game, agreed. I'd like to feel the tension and grittiness of fighting shoulder to shoulder, hand-to-hand and using combat knives in certain scenarios would be great.
gungamunga wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:11 pm 2. Limited arsenal
A soldier is trained to his weapon. Marines were issued full length m16/a2 and a4 rifles. In addition the only weapons you would see around you are M240 machine guns , and squad automatic weapons. Most marines did not have optics , however if they did they were either simple red dots or acog 4x scopes. They also had IR laser/illuminator units on their rifles too. Grenade launchers were also on rifles , however the game needs to make clear that in room distance combat the 40mm grenade has a safety fuse and shooting it under 40 meters results in no detonation.
Agreed. I don't oppose the ability to pick up other weapons though, you're trained to use weapons and if push came to shove — any soldier would use any weapon they could if they had to.
3. drugs
The insurgents in fallujah were on amphetamines and crack. This created a situation where despite multiple hits and mortal injuries , the insurgents would continue to fight until their body stopped functioning. This resulted in suggestions of headshots from command. In fact investigations were done on the marines in fallujah because of all the headshots found on insurgents , because they assumed it was illegal executions taking place. However it was mainly new optics (acog) and shooting at targets of opportunity (heads peaking out behind cover)
In real life, adrenaline alone can make it so you won't drop until at least 5-10 bullets are inside of you — police shootings attest this, and it's the same for war. I wouldn't even say they'd need to emphasize drug usage, adrenaline from your body alone will suffice.
4. night vision
Real night vision is not like video game night vision. The pvs 14 is a grainy , low contrast piece of gear. In a pitch black basement or room with no lights its completely useless since its a light amplification device. Here is an example of how it looks. Its not just a green filter over the screen like call of duty.
Playability is important here. Yes, night-vision in real life is terrible and you can barely see — is this fun and interesting? No, it's not. It'd annoy me and I'd barely use the feature in that case.

Limitations need to be made on realism and night-vision is a great case of this (any modern war game follows this) because it's just not enjoyable to have shitty NV goggles.
5. weapon handling
Close combat with a full length 20 inch barrel m16 is not fun. The game should simulate this by having it hard to maneuver , get caught up on stuff. Here is an example of how games deal with this.
Wouldn't mind that personally. I'd like there to be an interesting gun system, slow-paced and realistic so I'm on-board.
6. gore
Lots of games get gore wrong. Either its a giant splash of blood or a small puff of dust. The reality is somewhere in between or not at all. When a bullet hits a person its usually an invisible event. The bullets main interaction is when energy is transferred to the clothes causing a "flap" to occur at high speed. There is usually no spray of blood or dust depending on the environment. When the person falls they start bleeding out however and there is alot of blood. However headshots are different. Depending on the caliber a high velocity 556 round out of a 20 inch barrel will remove a persons brain from their skull. It will be a puff of pink mist and usually the skull collapses letting the brain leak out onto the floor. Higher caliber weapons like 7.62 from machine guns transfer more energy so its more violent of a reaction. Devs should watch close combat footage from syria to get an idea of this stuff. After a firefight in this game there should be blood all over the floor and chunks of skull and brain all over the place. It should be gross
I do agree that gore should play a HUGE part in this game for immersion. Blood, guts and the cruel reality of limbs being blown off in certain scenarios would give the player a true understanding of the harsh realities of what this war was.
7. Hand to hand.
Fallujah was unique in that it was one of the first major urban close combat battles in recent military memory. Door to door house to house. Many instances of hand to hand combat took place despite newer more high capacity weapons. If you turn a corner and are met by an enemy and he grabs you , you likely cannot pull up your weapon and if your buddy is busy you are in a hand to hand fight. Bayonets were used in fallujah , and by used i mean deployed by marines (usually point men) However i have not heard any reports of said bayonets ever been used in combat to kill an enemy. However this could just be lost because that would be deeply personal. The devs should implement a system of hand to hand combat (which likely would have to be QTE based or something) and mountable bayonets since every marine is issued one.
CQB is imperative for this game. The entire city attests this. We need it, and I hope we see a lot of it in the game.
8. Color
The trailer looked bad. Liked every other "middle east" video game. The colors are too vibrant and the air is too clear. These are very dusty areas. I suggest the devs look at alot of pictures to really nail down the colors of this area. Everything is made from flat earthen materials , and everything synthetic has been decimated by UV exposure. https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/al-f ... ostpopular
I agree some-what. Remember, this is a game and it needs to appeal. Sure, the atmosphere should provide an understanding of what it really looked like — however, concessions need to be make to ensure it's eye-catching and enjoyable to look at it. Bad color schemes can ruin games.
Rafael Valor
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Re: Suggestions and thoughts.

On the enemy insurgent weaponry, usually most of the AKs found in Fallujah were derived from many countries; Bulgarian, Chinese, from the Soviet Union, Tabuk Factory, etc... Usually not just a single type of AK like many games tend to use. MOH 2010 was a prime example of this, featuring several different models.
JRiv_Eagle
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Re: Suggestions and thoughts.

Great in depth post. However, make sure to include it’s a video game. Well, depends what the team is targeting for, mil sim or CODish? Or in between....?
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valentinbk
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Re: Suggestions and thoughts.

gungamunga wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:11 pm
6. gore
Lots of games get gore wrong. Either its a giant splash of blood or a small puff of dust. The reality is somewhere in between or not at all. When a bullet hits a person its usually an invisible event. The bullets main interaction is when energy is transferred to the clothes causing a "flap" to occur at high speed. There is usually no spray of blood or dust depending on the environment. When the person falls they start bleeding out however and there is alot of blood. However headshots are different. Depending on the caliber a high velocity 556 round out of a 20 inch barrel will remove a persons brain from their skull. It will be a puff of pink mist and usually the skull collapses letting the brain leak out onto the floor. Higher caliber weapons like 7.62 from machine guns transfer more energy so its more violent of a reaction. Devs should watch close combat footage from syria to get an idea of this stuff. After a firefight in this game there should be blood all over the floor and chunks of skull and brain all over the place. It should be gross
Would be interesting to see a game do realistic gore for a change. Even the hardcore shooters seem to go for the big puffs and some flashy effects (dismemberment from frag grenades and such).
A realistic but reasonably detailed system would be great:
*Focus on wounds where the character was hit (and not some ARMA style pre made overlay)
*Focus on bleeding after the hit (visible drops on floor, puddles and blood pools)
*Multiple states of injured behavior beyond alive and kicking\dead (downed but not dead characters on the ground, "injured walk" for characters)
Treesarefun
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Re: Suggestions and thoughts.

I agree with everything in this post, especially your stuff about sound design. The supersonic cracks of incoming fire need to be loud and SCARY. Gunshots indoors should sound different than outdoors, with an emphasis on increased volume and loud reverb. Dust and smoke should fill rooms. There is no need to "balance" the CQB in this game like you would in COD. SDIF is supposed to be a realistic representation of the horrors of combat. Combat is full of fear, uncertainty, and split-second decisions.

I would hate to see the removal of realistic elements, like dust and smoke in rooms, because it would make gameplay "frustrating" or "unfair." SDIF shouldn't be focused on symmetrical and fair gameplay. War is very asymmetrical by nature.

Also let's not forget voice acting! There needs to be realistic callouts, dialogue, and screams (morbid but true). This is often overlooked but has a huge impact.
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