Difficulty Level

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Kronzky
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Difficulty Level

After having watched all the pre-release gameplay videos posted by those veterans, and seeing them fail left and right, I'm starting to worry about about the difficulty level of this game.

After all, these are trained and experienced pros. They survived the real thing, and they should be able to survive the game. But instead, they're dropping like flies.
This would be like handing a race game to Lewis Hamilton, and him wiping out at every other corner. If that happens there's something wrong with the game, not with Lewis Hamilton.

I mean, I'm all for hard games (there are way too few of them), but if you're going for realism then dying should be the exception, rather than the rule. (And should only happen if you really, really screwed up. The real numbers were about 2,000 troops involved, and having 27 deaths. In the game it seems to be the other way round...)
Last edited by Kronzky on Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AmperCamper
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Re: Difficulty Level

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

The game punishes carelessness, and mistakes are going to cost you (and perhaps the whole team). But, it's not impossible. There's a unique balancing act that we're navigating. Of course, this can always be tuned.
Dague
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Re: Difficulty Level

DO NOT NERF DIFFICULTY.

Although these were real vets that played the game...it's still a game and skill level in real life doesn't always translate to video games. I saw a few playthroughs where people completed the mission. The game should be difficult, it should take time. The easier you make it, the more likely you will get players who are good gamers speed-running through the mission. Difficulty ensures that players play together, stick together, and cover each other's backs.

One way to combat this though would possibly be during the full launch to include a tutorial of basic tactics to help players complete the missions. Such as how to clear rooms, bounding, defensive positions, etc.
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Re: Difficulty Level

I think the balancing debate should wait until the EA is actually launched. A lot of people rn are saying it’s either too easy or too hard based on footage they’ve seen from YouTube without actually playing it.
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Re: Difficulty Level

Kronzky wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:54 pm After having watched all the pre-release gameplay videos posted by those veterans, and seeing them fail left and right, I'm starting to worry about about the difficulty level of this game.

After all, these are trained and experienced pros. They survived the real thing, and they should be able to survive the game. But instead, they're dropping like flies.
This would be like handing a race game to Lewis Hamilton, and him wiping out at every other corner. If that happens there's something wrong with the game, not with Lewis Hamilton.

I mean, I'm all for hard games (there are way too few of them), but if you're going for realism then dying should be the exception, rather than the rule. (And should only happen if you really, really screwed up. The real numbers were about 2,000 troops involved, and having 27 deaths. In the game it seems to be the other way round...)
Real world weapons handling skills cannot transfer over to the skills pro gamers have with their a keyboard and mouse, or a controller.
Kridath
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Re: Difficulty Level

Possibly an unpopular opinion…

Make it a variable difficulty. Those that move and communicate well will be reward. Those that sit around waiting for enemy to come to them should be punished or have a harder time to leave their stagnant position.

Everyone knows in the military that once you stop moving is the time you are most vulnerable.

Maybe have the AI sit back and wait for players to start advancing again to open fire to make them keep the momentum of the fight on the players side?
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Kean_1
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Re: Difficulty Level

Kronzky wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:54 pm After having watched all the pre-release gameplay videos posted by those veterans, and seeing them fail left and right, I'm starting to worry about about the difficulty level of this game.
We've got vets, retired law enforcement and folks with varying backgrounds in my group of friends that I play with. The experience can help with tactics, etc. but I've seen folks that have none of that exposure do well in games like these.

I guess my point is, you don't need to have a military or formal "real life" training in such things to excel in a game like this if you've got a good group of people working together as a team.
AmperCamper wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:56 pm Curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

The game punishes carelessness, and mistakes are going to cost you (and perhaps the whole team). But, it's not impossible. There's a unique balancing act that we're navigating. Of course, this can always be tuned.
My take on it is that there will always be some segment of the community who isn't satisfied with changes like this. IMO, the alternative to chasing a "one size fits all" solution by balancing is offering a difficulty option. ......or multiple, selectable variables to tailor the experience in that regard.

Personally, I really would hate to see the game "dumbed down" but I can also appreciate that it may turn otherwise interested players away if it's simply too difficult for them.
Kronzky
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Re: Difficulty Level

Kean_1 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:55 pm Personally, I really would hate to see the game "dumbed down" but I can also appreciate that it may turn otherwise interested players away if it's simply too difficult for them.
The issue is not whether it should be "dumbed down" or not, but whether the difficulty level is realistic.
Since this game is striving for realism, dying every 10 minutes (or patching yourself up every 5) will trivialize that situation, until you soon don't care anymore about whether you got shot, and you will end up playing it like CS or any die-respawn-die-respawn shooter.
Whereas, if getting injured/killed is an exceptional and rare event (reserved for situations where you really screwed up), and which might only happen every few hours, it will have a much larger impact on you.
There should be a constant *fear* of getting shot, but if you actually *are* getting shot every few minutes then it will just become a trivial, routine thing.
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Re: Difficulty Level

Kronzky wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:13 pm
Kean_1 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:55 pm Personally, I really would hate to see the game "dumbed down" but I can also appreciate that it may turn otherwise interested players away if it's simply too difficult for them.
The issue is not whether it should be "dumbed down" or not, but whether the difficulty level is realistic.
Since this game is striving for realism, dying every 10 minutes (or patching yourself up every 5) will trivialize that situation, until you soon don't care anymore about whether you got shot, and you will end up playing it like CS or any die-respawn-die-respawn shooter.
Whereas, if getting injured/killed is an exceptional and rare event (reserved for situations where you really screwed up), and which might only happen every few hours, it will have a much larger impact on you.
There should be a constant *fear* of getting shot, but if you actually *are* getting shot every few minutes then it will just become a trivial, routine thing.
I respectfully disagree with this statement. If the game becomes too easy...then you won't care if you get shot because you know everything will be able to be "out-gamed". If the game is uber-realistic and uber-hard then you actually fear getting shot and will take fewer risks...Even if it becomes frequent. Also, it's not just a die-and-respawn game. You die...you are dead until a teammate goes back to the AAV (AMTRACK) and spawns you back in.
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aggimajera
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Re: Difficulty Level

Kronzky wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:13 pm
Kean_1 wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 2:55 pm Personally, I really would hate to see the game "dumbed down" but I can also appreciate that it may turn otherwise interested players away if it's simply too difficult for them.
The issue is not whether it should be "dumbed down" or not, but whether the difficulty level is realistic.
Since this game is striving for realism, dying every 10 minutes (or patching yourself up every 5) will trivialize that situation, until you soon don't care anymore about whether you got shot, and you will end up playing it like CS or any die-respawn-die-respawn shooter.
Whereas, if getting injured/killed is an exceptional and rare event (reserved for situations where you really screwed up), and which might only happen every few hours, it will have a much larger impact on you.
There should be a constant *fear* of getting shot, but if you actually *are* getting shot every few minutes then it will just become a trivial, routine thing.
See, you're delving into a core point of contention with the games very existence - it is a game, a simulation. I don't think the mechanics or difficulty serve to trivialize the event any more than a movie could. The fact is we can't expect the game to really give us the experience of Fallujah - we can only use it as a tool to help us try to understand the event. Fuck, I was infantry, I read books, watched documentaries, but speaking with senior enlisted who were there... we can never get that experience without having been there. The game, try as it might, can only get us so close. A pro gamer who kills it in this game is no more a Fallujah vet than me, a USMC grunt who never saw combat.

We should welcome the difficulty. I'd rather have this game be a bitch to complete that takes thinking rather than be a glorified Call of Duty-esque shooting gallery.
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