Questions about death portayal

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aggimajera
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Questions about death portayal

Referring to basically every shooter game that comes out, when you shoot another player or an NPC you are generally greeted with quip along the lines of "Gah!" or Hah!" then they fall to the ground dead.

In Insurgency: Sandstorm (and to an extent Ready or Not), you are greeted with chilling screams of agony, whimpers, groans, and gargles. The only time there isn't is when you cap another individual. In Sandstorm as well, when you kill another player, their character will lay on the ground cradling themselves or generally writhing in pain. Though in a multiplayer setting its gets fairly easy to overlook, it was a nice touch that makes killing another player at times a bit unsettling since you are offered a glimpse past their "target" facade and see part of their humanity.

Additionally, death animations. Almost all video games approach death the same way: shoot a man, he falls down in a well made animation. Often times they're a bit cartoony and dramatic, but so many other ways of dying exist that are truly disturbing. Stumbling off almost in a marionette-like daze, doubling over and sliding down a wall trying to grasp for something, begging the shooter to stop, and generally losing all semblance of strength an just collapsing.

Will we see similar approaches to the display of killing here? The subject of death is at the core of these stories and I feel hearing it as well as seeing it will be a vital part of the atmosphere.

As an example, pulling the trigger and causing a death like this would stick with an individual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D08dE6c ... therFoller
Last edited by aggimajera on Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EddyG
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Re: Questions about death portayal

Agree, and the link give you a look at a great example.

Sometimes, they could get off another round or two before passing.
Kridath
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Re: Questions about death portayal

aggimajera wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 8:45 am Referring to basically every shooter game that comes out, when you shoot another player or an NPC you are generally greeted with quip along the lines of "Gah!" or Hah!" then they fall to the ground dead.

In Insurgency: Sandstorm (and to an extent Ready or Not), you are greeted with chilling screams of agony, whimpers, groans, and gargles. The only time there isn't is when you cap another individual. In Sandstorm as well, when you kill another player, their character will lay on the ground cradling themselves or generally writhing in pain. Though in a multiplayer setting its gets fairly easy to overlook, it was a nice touch that makes killing another player at times a bit unsettling since you are offered a glimpse past their "target" facade and see part of their humanity.

Additionally, death animations. Almost all video games approach death the same way: shoot a man, he falls down in a well made animation. Often times they're a bit cartoony and dramatic, but so many other ways of dying exist that are truly disturbing. Stumbling off almost in a marionette-like daze, doubling over and sliding down a wall trying to grasp for something, begging the shooter to stop, and generally losing all semblance of strength an just collapsing.

Will we see similar approaches to the display of killing here? The subject of death is at the core of these stories and I feel hearing it as well as seeing it will be a vital part of the atmosphere.

As an example, pulling the trigger and causing a death like this would stick with an individual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D08dE6c ... therFoller
To go along with this, how realistic will the ballistics of a bullet be entering and killing a target? As far as a stomach shot which probably won’t kill someone immediately vs a shot to the heart/chest where it’s more likely to be in a kill zone on the body.

Headshots will obviously be a one hit, or will they? But will there be different hit boxes on the enemy that will make it more realistic if you shoot that area it can be a one-hit.

Does the enemy have a bleed out feature? I think this would be neat to allow them to continue fighting for even that extra second or two. While they bleed out
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AmperCamper
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Re: Questions about death portayal

Thanks for the references, agg. Complex death animations are not something we are investing in up front, but we might do slightly more than conventional shooters and add more variety over time. We can see a strong case for this, and we appreciate you kickstarting this conversation.
Kridath wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:37 am To go along with this, how realistic will the ballistics of a bullet be entering and killing a target? As far as a stomach shot which probably won’t kill someone immediately vs a shot to the heart/chest where it’s more likely to be in a kill zone on the body.

Headshots will obviously be a one hit, or will they? But will there be different hit boxes on the enemy that will make it more realistic if you shoot that area it can be a one-hit.

Does the enemy have a bleed out feature? I think this would be neat to allow them to continue fighting for even that extra second or two. While they bleed out
We're experimenting with some of this, and we're open to hearing everyone's thoughts. How do you guys feel about one-shots versus pumping multiple rounds? Keep in mind some Insurgents were hyped on adrenaline, too.
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Re: Questions about death portayal

AmperCamper wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:56 am Thanks for the references, agg. Complex death animations are not something we are investing in up front, but we might do slightly more than conventional shooters and add more variety over time. We can see a strong case for this, and we appreciate you kickstarting this conversation.
Kridath wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:37 am To go along with this, how realistic will the ballistics of a bullet be entering and killing a target? As far as a stomach shot which probably won’t kill someone immediately vs a shot to the heart/chest where it’s more likely to be in a kill zone on the body.

Headshots will obviously be a one hit, or will they? But will there be different hit boxes on the enemy that will make it more realistic if you shoot that area it can be a one-hit.

Does the enemy have a bleed out feature? I think this would be neat to allow them to continue fighting for even that extra second or two. While they bleed out
We're experimenting with some of this, and we're open to hearing everyone's thoughts. How do you guys feel about one-shots versus pumping multiple rounds? Keep in mind some Insurgents were hyped on adrenaline, too.
I've heard stories from guys there that sometimes it would take a whole mag just to drop an insurgent thanks to all the drugs they were on. I think a headshot should more than likely turn the lights off. But yeah I can see them taking multiple body shots. It would be cool to see shots to the arms or legs actually disable them from using those.
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Kean_1
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Re: Questions about death portayal

AmperCamper wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:56 am Thanks for the references, agg. Complex death animations are not something we are investing in up front, but we might do slightly more than conventional shooters and add more variety over time. We can see a strong case for this, and we appreciate you kickstarting this conversation.

We're experimenting with some of this, and we're open to hearing everyone's thoughts. How do you guys feel about one-shots versus pumping multiple rounds? Keep in mind some Insurgents were hyped on adrenaline, too.
I'm hoping for a more "hardcore" damage model (both ways). What I would hate though is gameplay that feels "bullet spongy".

Ideally, I would like if the damage mechanics took into account hit boxes as mentioned. ....but beyond just damage multipliers. In other words, a hit to the leg wouldn't be lethal but maybe cripple the enemy......they drop to the ground initially but may continue to engage. .....same with the arm, etc.

Perhaps a shot to the t-box (face) would be an instant kill while other parts of the skull may be a one-shot depending on several factors (e.g. caliber, distance, kill chance, etc.).

I guess the question is, how detailed will the damage mechanic be? if it's fairly rudimentary then maybe making headshots a one-shot deal center mass 2-3 , etc. (for example) might be the best we can hope for.

Personally, I'm hoping the system will be more complex than that taking into account a number of variables.
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aggimajera
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Re: Questions about death portayal

AmperCamper wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:56 am Thanks for the references, agg. Complex death animations are not something we are investing in up front, but we might do slightly more than conventional shooters and add more variety over time. We can see a strong case for this, and we appreciate you kickstarting this conversation.
Kridath wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:37 am To go along with this, how realistic will the ballistics of a bullet be entering and killing a target? As far as a stomach shot which probably won’t kill someone immediately vs a shot to the heart/chest where it’s more likely to be in a kill zone on the body.

Headshots will obviously be a one hit, or will they? But will there be different hit boxes on the enemy that will make it more realistic if you shoot that area it can be a one-hit.

Does the enemy have a bleed out feature? I think this would be neat to allow them to continue fighting for even that extra second or two. While they bleed out
We're experimenting with some of this, and we're open to hearing everyone's thoughts. How do you guys feel about one-shots versus pumping multiple rounds? Keep in mind some Insurgents were hyped on adrenaline, too.
It really depends. I think its isn't a bad idea to have enemies take hits and keep going. There ought to be a balance though, between insta-kill and no. You do it too much you run the risk of having the enemies be labelled bullet sponges.
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Re: Questions about death portayal



I get this is a completely different game but GTA 5 does some cool things with the ai. In this fight, the suspect gets shot and falls to the ground managing to pop off a few shots.
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Re: Questions about death portayal

AmperCamper wrote: Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:56 am Thanks for the references, agg. Complex death animations are not something we are investing in up front, but we might do slightly more than conventional shooters and add more variety over time. We can see a strong case for this, and we appreciate you kickstarting this conversation.
Kridath wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:37 am To go along with this, how realistic will the ballistics of a bullet be entering and killing a target? As far as a stomach shot which probably won’t kill someone immediately vs a shot to the heart/chest where it’s more likely to be in a kill zone on the body.

Headshots will obviously be a one hit, or will they? But will there be different hit boxes on the enemy that will make it more realistic if you shoot that area it can be a one-hit.

Does the enemy have a bleed out feature? I think this would be neat to allow them to continue fighting for even that extra second or two. While they bleed out
We're experimenting with some of this, and we're open to hearing everyone's thoughts. How do you guys feel about one-shots versus pumping multiple rounds? Keep in mind some Insurgents were hyped on adrenaline, too.
If the reality of war and what the soldiers and civilians experienced is the main focus. I say make it realistic for the caliber of round being used, and the location in which the target is hit. While some insurgents were high af, if not done correctly (graphic content wise) and I shoot a target in the face (possible survivability), if more then one round is needed. Me as a player needs to understand why, as personally I'm tired of gun violence not being portrayed correctly in games. If you put in humans and make the weapons firearms imo the damage done by said firearms should be shown 100%, no punches held regardless. Yes I understand it's a game, yet it's portraying real events, so keep it real imo. No offense meant, and I can't wait to dive into this game on release.
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