Question on ROE

[Recon4thCav]

Also go to page 19. See what that Marine says.

[Recon4thCav]

They word it to cover thier ass. Research the Marine that shot an injured Iraq in a Mosque and was not charged with anything(CNN was there and recorded it). No one was charged with any war crime. If you think we killed 600-800 civilians, do you not think some of us would have been charged with war crimes?

I remember my orders like they were yesterday.

Let me clarify: I wasn't implying or suggesting that you or anybody that you know were committing war crimes.
I was simply answering your question on if the Marines had any rules of engagement. I gave you a document along with the original source that was provided. That was it.

I just wanted to answer your question concerning ROE.

And even in that document there are statements that show there was no ROE.

They wrote a ROE to appease Kuffi(he is a moron. Meet him in Kosovo, complete moron) from the UN, but then told us, everyone in Fullajah is an insurgent.

[Recon4thCav]

And this right here is why I'm ok with the game getting canceled-

1- Certain Gold Star Families want it canceled.
2- They are already getting things wrong.
3- They are saying anyone I killed in Fallujah might have been a civilian. Not cool to say to veterans. I did what I had to do as a NCO to bring my Soldiers home to thier family. And followed my orders given to me by the leaders above me.
4- Somethings should not be forgotten, but a video game is not the right way in my eyes to do it.

Just my 2 cents.

[AmperCamper]

The units we’ve been working with practiced a stricter ROE. Most of these units also experienced losses by not engaging individuals pretending to be non-combatants.

In terms of game mechanics, many of the servicemembers we’ve spoken with described the thought of engaging a non-combatant as so abhorrent they would be incapable of continuing the fight. And, we have spoken with officers who had to pull servicemembers from their units who had actually become combat ineffective after accidentally engaging a non-combatant.

These are two of many substantive reasons why penalizing players for shooting a civilian is appropriate.

[Eseicos]

I would not like to intrude on this thread, as I am not an expert on the ROE to which the soldiers who participated in Falluja were subjected.
But if I wanted to comment on the games in general, in the majority if you kill a civilian by mistake they give you the failure of the mission and you have to repeat it (I hate this game system).
Yes, there are games like swat that you have to minimize civilian casualties and follow a protocol, but when you play these types of games you already get mental and act carefully and you have the option of non-lethal ammunition.
But in open war games with military ammunition and grenades, etc ... this is more complicated and a civilian casualty can always occur by mistake.
As Tan_47 says, a scoring system could be correct and would force the player not to rush, but in the case of hitting a civilian you are not penalized with the failure of the mission.
Another system would be, as in some games, that civilians were immortal.
A wound could be simulated, but never death. There are games in which you can empty a magazine against a civilian, even children and the only consequence is that they run away. But all this last thing has nothing of real.
I hope that the developers find the best solution to this issue, since only they know what kind of pressure they can be subjected to from the detractors of this game.
I hope I have brought something positive to this debate. All the best.

[Recon4thCav]

The units we’ve been working with practiced a stricter ROE. Most of these units also experienced losses by not engaging individuals pretending to be non-combatants.

In terms of game mechanics, many of the servicemembers we’ve spoken with described the thought of engaging a non-combatant as so abhorrent they would be incapable of continuing the fight. And, we have spoken with officers who had to pull servicemembers from their units who had actually become combat ineffective after accidentally engaging a non-combatant.

These are two of many substantive reasons why penalizing players for shooting a civilian is appropriate.

And there is documentation and testimony stating we were told only insurgents were left in the city.

Too scared to put Willie P in the game, but we used it. Want pictures or videos?

You are saying you are making a documentary video game, but you are not telling the whole truth. Really feels like this game is being used a recruitment tool and trying to hide what really happened there.

[AmperCamper]

It’s not possible for any media to capture the full experience of any war or battle. We will tackle many tough topics during the game’s documentary segments, but gameplay is focused on very specific, and remarkably compelling, stories we’ve been told, as well as the game mechanics that allow us to experience these stories in a new way.

With that being said, I will be sure the community’s thoughts on all of these subjects are communicated to the development team so your perspectives on this will be heard.

[Rafael Valor]

It’s not possible for any media to capture the full experience of any war or battle. We will tackle many tough topics during the game’s documentary segments, but gameplay is focused on very specific, and remarkably compelling, stories we’ve been told, as well as the game mechanics that allow us to experience these stories in a new way.

With that being said, I will be sure the community’s thoughts on all of these subjects are communicated to the development team so your perspectives on this will be heard.

Great input, sorry if this question seems out of place; was the gameplay trailer being played with a controller or keyboard&mouse?